Serbu Firearms, Inc., Tampa, Florida Forum Index Serbu Firearms, Inc., Tampa, Florida
Get it from the horse's mouth!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Deformed cases

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Serbu Firearms, Inc., Tampa, Florida Forum Index -> BFG-50
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mark_Henry
Dangerous


Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Concord, NC; Rumford, ME

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Deformed cases Reply with quote

Now that I'm starting to reload my used brass I've noticed something peculiar (well, not really peculiar, more annoying). When ejecting a hot case the pin ejector tends to slap the casing against the inside wall of the receiver. IF the case is cool (IE I wait a minute or two after firing to eject) all is well. However, if I shoot a round and then eject the case that smack against the inside wall of the receiver puts one heck of a ding in the opening collar of the brass case. Of course, I can fix this during reloading, but some cases are *really* dinged and its puts alot of pressure on the Lee press to put it back into shape.

My initial thought is to loose the pin style ejector and replace it with a Mauser style leaf spring. However, that would mean machining a slot in the receiver, making the spring and then significant modifications to the bolt.

Before I go this route is anyone else running into this "problem"? If so, what are you doing about it? Also, Mark - have you given any thought to a spring type ejector?

Thanks,
_________________
"All that is complex is not useful.
All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov

"Life is hard. I suggest that you guys
cowboy up and quit whining."
Massimo Maddaloni
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mrkubota
Guru


Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Eastern AZ, Southern CA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen anything like that happen with my cases (unless I drop them on the concrete).

I just tried chambering and ejecting some of my empties in my BFG. I can hear the case mouth ring when it hit the receiver wall as it's extracted, but still, no deformation at all. (LC 97 brasss)

What kind of brass/ammo are you using?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lazarus
Too much time on my hands


Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think about what the temperature inside the chamber is when you rip off a round! The more rounds fired, the hotter the build up of heat. Look at the size of the heat sink we use as barrels. Sorry I keep coming back to prairie dog shooting for examples but in Texas temperatures, we have to rotate our guns to keep the shells from detonating just due to the heat build up. When we find a target rich environment it’s not unusual to shoot several hundred rounds in a row. You do that with a single hot rod rifle and you will waste a barrel before lunch. The brass is soft to begin with and the heat makes it softer. Let it just touch anything when ejecting and it will ding like you are talking about. Try opening the bolt with just a little less “gusto” and see if that helps. The ejector might kick it out with a little less force and it might not ding on whatever it’s hitting on now. Remember the extractor/ejector springs are new and stiff now. As time goes on they will loosen up and might not throw the case in the same manner. In AUTO rifles the case mouths tend to look like the letter “D” as they come out.

If you haven’t tried it… get yourself a can of Hornady “One Shot” case lube and spray it on the inside of your necks and LET IT DRY for about five min’s before you resize. That will help eliminate a lot of pressure/friction on your expander ball and arm! By all means continue to use something to lube the outside of the case also! Be sure to clean the inside of your dies! The crud on the outside of the cases will build up on the inside of your dies. Is it possible to install a longer handle on your Lee press? That would help your leverage but might be a death sentence for your press. I don’t use a Lee press so I’m just guessing. When I load the 50’s… it’s like loading 223’s with my press.
Lazarus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
markserbu
Guru


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Tampa, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Deformed cases Reply with quote

Hadn't heard of that one before. Since you built this gun from a kit, we'll just blame it on you. Smile

I wouldn't think about changing the ejector for 2 reasons: 1) Trying to put a groove in the proper spot in the bolt will severely weaken it. 2) The plunger-type ejector keeps the bolt lugs in contact with the barrel extension at the moment of firing, and I consider this to be an important design feature in this gun. Remember that this is not a striker-fired mechanism, and because of that there's no striker spring pushing the bolt back.



Mark_Henry wrote:
Now that I'm starting to reload my used brass I've noticed something peculiar (well, not really peculiar, more annoying). When ejecting a hot case the pin ejector tends to slap the casing against the inside wall of the receiver. IF the case is cool (IE I wait a minute or two after firing to eject) all is well. However, if I shoot a round and then eject the case that smack against the inside wall of the receiver puts one heck of a ding in the opening collar of the brass case. Of course, I can fix this during reloading, but some cases are *really* dinged and its puts alot of pressure on the Lee press to put it back into shape.

My initial thought is to loose the pin style ejector and replace it with a Mauser style leaf spring. However, that would mean machining a slot in the receiver, making the spring and then significant modifications to the bolt.

Before I go this route is anyone else running into this "problem"? If so, what are you doing about it? Also, Mark - have you given any thought to a spring type ejector?

Thanks,
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark_Henry
Dangerous


Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Concord, NC; Rumford, ME

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Deformed cases Reply with quote

markserbu wrote:
Hadn't heard of that one before. Since you built this gun from a kit, we'll just blame it on you. Smile


Why did I just know that was coming?!?!?!

markserbu wrote:
I wouldn't think about changing the ejector for 2 reasons: 1) Trying to put a groove in the proper spot in the bolt will severely weaken it.


I don't know. I think this could be done right, if.... Of course that "if" is a long list of constraints and I'm just not that interested in following through. Although if you want to e-mail me your 3D files for the bolt head and body I might just work something out for the heck of it...

markserbu wrote:
2) The plunger-type ejector keeps the bolt lugs in contact with the barrel extension at the moment of firing, and I consider this to be an important design feature in this gun. Remember that this is not a striker-fired mechanism, and because of that there's no striker spring pushing the bolt back.


Keeping in mind that I'm just a simple gunsmithing student and not a mechanical engineer, but... Shouldn't the headspace take care of this? I mean, if the gun is properly headspaced (which it is) AND we're using properly sized ammunition (which I am) then shouldn't the chamber keep pressure on the case, which in turn would keep the bolt face and lugs pushed up tight into the barrel extension?

I mean I'd hate to think that the ejector was trying to take up a couple thousanths of gap to make up for a poor chamber, or improperly sized ammo. To me that would produce a more dangerous situation as the case would move backwards at the time of ignition and strike the face of the bolt. Wouldn't this create more pressure or force (remember, I'm not an engineering student) against the bolt face then would be felt if they sat flush and tight?
_________________
"All that is complex is not useful.
All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov

"Life is hard. I suggest that you guys
cowboy up and quit whining."
Massimo Maddaloni
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
markserbu
Guru


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 687
Location: Tampa, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Deformed cases Reply with quote

Mark,
I'm all for tinkering around with stuff...hell, that's how I got here! But when it's MY stuff that you're tinkering with, and I've already told you it's basically dangerous....well, it's better that I don't even hear about it; I sure can't help you out, unfortunately. And I don't really want to get into a technical discussion of this nature, either. You never know who reads this stuff and I've given away enough free info over the years as it is.


Mark_Henry wrote:
markserbu wrote:
Hadn't heard of that one before. Since you built this gun from a kit, we'll just blame it on you. Smile


Why did I just know that was coming?!?!?!

markserbu wrote:
I wouldn't think about changing the ejector for 2 reasons: 1) Trying to put a groove in the proper spot in the bolt will severely weaken it.


I don't know. I think this could be done right, if.... Of course that "if" is a long list of constraints and I'm just not that interested in following through. Although if you want to e-mail me your 3D files for the bolt head and body I might just work something out for the heck of it...

markserbu wrote:
2) The plunger-type ejector keeps the bolt lugs in contact with the barrel extension at the moment of firing, and I consider this to be an important design feature in this gun. Remember that this is not a striker-fired mechanism, and because of that there's no striker spring pushing the bolt back.


Keeping in mind that I'm just a simple gunsmithing student and not a mechanical engineer, but... Shouldn't the headspace take care of this? I mean, if the gun is properly headspaced (which it is) AND we're using properly sized ammunition (which I am) then shouldn't the chamber keep pressure on the case, which in turn would keep the bolt face and lugs pushed up tight into the barrel extension?

I mean I'd hate to think that the ejector was trying to take up a couple thousanths of gap to make up for a poor chamber, or improperly sized ammo. To me that would produce a more dangerous situation as the case would move backwards at the time of ignition and strike the face of the bolt. Wouldn't this create more pressure or force (remember, I'm not an engineering student) against the bolt face then would be felt if they sat flush and tight?
[/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark_Henry
Dangerous


Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 23
Location: Concord, NC; Rumford, ME

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Deformed cases Reply with quote

markserbu wrote:
Mark, I'm all for tinkering around with stuff...hell, that's how I got here! But when it's MY stuff that you're tinkering with, and I've already told you it's basically dangerous....well, it's better that I don't even hear about it; I sure can't help you out, unfortunately. And I don't really want to get into a technical discussion of this nature, either. You never know who reads this stuff and I've given away enough free info over the years as it is.


Mark,

Sorry, I didn't mean to touch a live wire. No offense was intended. I'm certainly not trying to question your expertise or the integrity of the BFG-50 - I'm just interested in learning as much as I can and sometimes overreach without thinking. You've helped me out greatly while I built the BFG-50 carbine kit, and I appreciate that alot.

mark h
_________________
"All that is complex is not useful.
All that is useful is simple."
Mikhail Kalashnikov

"Life is hard. I suggest that you guys
cowboy up and quit whining."
Massimo Maddaloni
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Serbu Firearms, Inc., Tampa, Florida Forum Index -> BFG-50 All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group